question: for different button ranges, which flops are best for check-raising?
cliff notes: surprisingly enough, some flops hit more
starting hands than others. if you are playing against players who
don't fully appreciate this shocking discovery, the following analysis
should prove useful. if not, it may still be worthwhile to skim the 'results' and then move to the 'more discussion' section, as i thought this analysis (and the accompanying spreadsheet) were somewhat helpful for framing questions about good/bad double barrel spots.
starting hands than others. if you are playing against players who
don't fully appreciate this shocking discovery, the following analysis
should prove useful. if not, it may still be worthwhile to skim the 'results' and then move to the 'more discussion' section, as i thought this analysis (and the accompanying spreadsheet) were somewhat helpful for framing questions about good/bad double barrel spots.
method: simulations were run using stoxev, where button was given a specific opening range (top x%) and flop texture was defined. the button's c/r calling range was then set and fold % was determined.
results (opening %, fold % range 1; fold % range 2; fold % range 3) (disclaimer: i'm not so great w/ details sometimes, so take this fwiw and please let me know if something looks wrong):
1. flop: Ah9c3d; (btn calls any pair, fd, gutshot+); [btn calls >=mp, fd, oesd]; {btn calls >=tp, fd, oesd}
vjFKb7H91Rrpd-aisSImAQ
- 20, (41.1); [56.7]; {70.9}
- 30, (38.0); [48.9]; {71.9}
- 40, (47.9); [59.4]; {79.9}
- 50, (47.1); [58.2]; {74.6}
2. flop: Kh9c3d; (btn calls any pair, fd, gutshot+); [btn calls >=mp, fd, oesd]; {btn calls >=tp, fd, oesd}
- 20, (25.4); [61.3]; {72.6}
- 30, (31.5); [56.7]; {77.4}
- 40, (45.9); [64.7]; {83.6}
- 50, (51.9); [69.5]; {84.5}
- 20, (25.6); [54.4]; {63.1}
- 30, (32.4); [53.6]; {73.2}
- 40, (42.4); [62.4]; {79.8}
- 50, (49.9); [69.5]; {83.5}
- 20, (25.3); [54.2]; {61.6}
- 30, (31.2); [52.7]; {69.9}
- 40, (39.2); [58.9]; {75.3}
- 50, (46.6); [65.0]; {78.3}
- 20, (43.9); [67.9]; {69.1}
- 30, (34.6); [53.5]; {59.9}
- 40, (32.1); [52.1]; {63.8}
- 50, (37.7); [56.1]; {69.2}
- 20, (65.6); [67.7]; {70.2}
- 30, (69.8); [73.9]; {76.0}
- 40, (66.4); [71.8]; {74.1}
- 50, (63.7); [71.6]; {75.7}
- 20, (3.70); [50.0]; {70.1}
- 30, (26.0); [56.3]; {72.1}
- 40, (42.7); [68.2]; {80.1}
- 50, (42.2); [64.7]; {75.1}
- 20, (62.7); [80.8]; {81.8}
- 30, (57.6); [74.8]; {79.1}
- 40, (46.3); [66.2]; {75.4}
- 50, (50.9); [67.3]; {77.8}
- 20, (53.6); [56.3]; {72.2}
- 30, (67.1); [68.9]; {79.9}
- 40, (74.2); [75.3]; {84.4}
- 50, (76.8); [77.8]; {87.0}
- 20, (1.35); [27.5]; {38.8}
- 30, (5.50); [31.1]; {38.0}
- 40, (13.9); [38.9]; {44.4}
- 50, (22.4); [45.4]; {50.1}
some observations:
- the effectiveness of check-raise bluffs on some flop textures is WEAKLY dependent on button OPENING range, see flops 1, 5, 6, 8 and 9.
- the effectiveness of check-raise bluffs on some flop textures is WEAKLY dependent on button CALLING range, see flop 6, and to a lesser extent 8 and 9 (note that these flops are all paired and all included in observation 1).
- the effectiveness of check-raise bluffs on some flop textures is STRONGLY dependent on button OPENING range, see flops 2, 3, 4, 7 and 10.
- the effectiveness of check-raise bluffs on some flop textures is STRONGLY dependent on button CALLING range, see flops 1-5, 7 and 10.
more discussion: consider flop 2,
Kh9c3d; (btn calls any pair, fd, gutshot+); [btn calls >=mp, fd, oesd]; {btn calls >=tp, fd, oesd}
- 20, (25.4); [61.3]; {72.6}
- 30, (31.5); [56.7]; {77.4}
- 40, (45.9); [64.7]; {83.6}
- 50, (51.9); [69.5]; {84.5}
1. Ah9c3d
- btn cbet ev = 1.6bb
- bb c/r ev = 3.9
- bb 2nd barrel ev = 9.6bb
- btn cbet ev = 1.0bb
- bb c/r ev = 4.5bb
- bb 2nd barrel ev = 8.3
4. Jh9c3d
unless i'm missing something, the thing that stands out here is that c/r bluffing and 2nd barreling are rarely significant ev mistakes v. most btn open ranges. that's not to say that these plays are anywhere near optimal. [note: btn cbet ev is biased by the bb pf call + flop c/r range of ALL HANDS.] i've expanded this ev analysis to include the ten flops above across the different opening ranges in this spreadsheet: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p- btn cbet ev = 1.4
- bb c/r ev = 4.2
- bb 2nd barrel ev = 7.3
- btn cbet ev = 2.7
- bb c/r ev = 2.7
- bb 2nd barrel ev = 7.3
- btn cbet ev = 1.4
- bb c/r ev = 4.3
- bb 2nd barrel ev = 0.5
- btn cbet ev = 2.4
- bb c/r ev = 3.2
- bb 2nd barrel ev = 2.7
- btn cbet ev = 2.4
- bb c/r ev = 3.2
- bb 2nd barrel ev = (1.9)
- btn cbet ev = 1.5
- bb c/r ev = 4.2
- bb 2nd barrel ev = (0.7)
- btn cbet ev = 6.9
- bb c/r ev = (1.6)
- bb 2nd barrel ev = (1.7)
Well, well, well... I just don´t remember HOW i went to your blog. But,wow, i just say WOW. I am glad I started reading it.
ReplyDeleteTHE BEST POKER BLOG I EVER READ. Really, thank you for every each single post. I believe we are similar persons. I really think in a very similar way you do. I have a degree on Math. I wont doubt if u have one too.
I loved these simulations... Wow... I thought some weeks ago on doing this. And you just did. And in a better than I would do.
Oh, just remembered how i went in here. I was obsessed on finding the stats of masstabling players like nananoko and fidodell on six max. I am lucrative masstabling 24 full ring on stars but i am not lucrative on 16 tabling six max on FTP ( nl 100 ) { it is strange bcause i am 6 ptbb on nl 50 anyway }. U see, it is not money. I just want to beat six max also mass tabling.
KEEP WRITING MAN!!!
( strangelly i starded datamining fidodell and he was CBETTING just 8% after 2000 hands today. Maybe he was making some kind of experiment or video of how c-beting is overated.!? Your stats after 22 000 hands put him on 60%, which is a normal lucrative number anyyway )
nikolaslippmann@gmail.com
Sorry for the bad english. I am brazilian.